Like your drivers pear shaped? Tell us!
Square? Tell us!
How about a 8 degree triangular shape with a thin carbon crown and interchangeable hosels? Tell us!
Hireko wants YOU to be a part of the design process for our new 2010 driver. Jot down any ideas you may have and post it as a comment on this blog. All ideas will be posted on this page and shared with the Hireko community.
As the process develops, you will be able to comment and tweak the design. We want to make this new driver a collaborative effort with you in the driver’s seat.
So put on your designers hat and give us your ultimate driver!
Disclaimer
Hireko reserves the right to reject or accept any ideas submitted to the design of the new driver. All comments and suggestions posted on this blog are the sole property of Hireko Golf.
100 Comments on Hireko Wants You To Help Design Our Next Driver From The Ground Up!
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[...] Comments Chris on Hireko’s 2009 Shaft Fitting Addendum Now AvailableDB on Hireko Wants You To Help Design Our Next Driver From The Ground Up!Ralph Larkin on The Relationship Between Loft and Face Angle Part 3Jeff Summitt on The Relationship [...]
What ever is built would you please carry the line through the fairway and Hybrid in that same model.
I still play my ping tec driver because I don’t hit any new club any better. Ilike the shaft and the smaller head.
I may pull the shaft out of a spare one I purchase at a shop and put it in the new ICT model. Also I have two r7 ti’s that are no longer made, Is a new ti fairway wood coming maybe to match the ICT series.
Thanks Sam
First of all, thanks for listening to our advice. It is exciting to be a part of a club project created by fellow golfers.
FLAT LIE, is very important to me. Is is not commen with most clubs, but it should be. I.E. Stand up to your club as you would be to address the ball, look at how much the front of the club is in the air and where the club actually rests on the ground. A FLAT LIE would be a more level club at impact. I have a 200 CC FLAT LIE driver that I use often, because it is more accurate and even with a small head, I can drive the ball far. Todays standard size clubs have too much of an upright lie, and would work great if we were all 6′ 2″.
STIFF SHAFT graphite. It’s still lighter than steel, and more accurate than the regular flex used in most standard clubs.
The two items mentioned are not the typical items used in todays manufactured clubs, but this is not your typical club.
Right?
Thank You!
Mark.
Your ICT hosel technology is very interesting. How about making this in a bigger say 440cc to 460cc model and more traditionally shaped? Wouldn’t it be more interesting to a larger profile of the golfer market? Does the weight of your hosel insert force your engineers to keep the size smaller? That can’t weigh more than 10 grams or so right? Just a thought… Thanks, Gary
Face angle is critical. There are WAY too many drivers out there with closed face angles but very little with open face angles, especially in higher lofts. I’d like those who use 11-12* lofted rivers to have an option of purchasing a driver with a 2* open face angle. There’s NOTHING on the market, so you would own the competition in this regard.
Perhaps at EACH loft you can offer 2* closed, square, and 2* open. A survey was taken last year among users of 12* lofted drivers on the GEA forum, and the majority actually preferred the face angle to be OPEN, not closed, which is contrary to what component manufacturers and OEMs develop. So you would be a leader in this area. Not everyone slices the ball!
Thanks,
BobV
Hi Gary:
As you know, every gram is critical in a design and has to be accounted for. Without using exotic materials and greatly increasing cost, that was as large as we could make it and maintain a normal 200g weight.
Jeff,
Several of the Hireko links are broken at the website…do you know what happened?
I’m looking to get the most current DSFI ratings…I’ve been a faithful follower of this methodology for years! Thanks for all your hard work over the years.
Brad
Brad:
Please email me at jsummitt@hirekogolf.com with any links that you find are broken that way we can track them. Some of the links could be old and overridden like the annual addendum. The new 2009 Shaft Fitting Addendum can be found at the following link:
http://www.hirekogolf.com/hire.....LENGTH.pdf
460cc with interchangeable hosel. There has to be a way without increasing cost. In addition, a face with reduced roll similar to Wishon’s GRT for a consistent trajectory.
As a club builder I would like to see your ICT head and shaft connection system work on any head; including your 2010 driver head. As one can see from the comments, the suggestion are all over the board. There are just as many flavors as people’s ideas. None are wrong or right, it’s just what works for them; which is what golf equipment technology is all about. Needless to say, the tried and true technology has to be included to compete with all of the other driver heads on the market, but I think you could sell the connection system to everyone once you prove having the advantage of adjustments on a given day would benefit one’s score. Even the pros don’t hit the same every day, so for the everyday golfer who could correct a block one day to straight by just turning the shaft would sell pretty good. I guess the best challenge would be to have a golfer come in with his driver and you set him up with your driver and show on a launch monitor (a demo on the course would be better), yours is better (lower spin rate, higher angle, etc). Of course this gets into fitting and I know that your company is interested in sales only. A weight port (as well as fade/draw weights) is a must so swing weight can be adjusted readily.
[...] Hireko’s “We want YOU to be a part of the design process for our new 2010 driver” campaign, we have received quite a few comments so far. Not surprisingly there are a lot of [...]
[...] Comments Hireko’s Response To The “Design Our Next Driver” Call on Hireko Wants You To Help Design Our Next Driver From The Ground Up!Mike H on Hireko Golf Announces Opening Of New Hireko Golf United KingdomSlicedoctor on How [...]
About two years ago I envisioned a driver that started with a cup face design made of alpha maraging steel.
The hosel would be either a blind bore or I suppose to update the idea it could use the ICT prophet fixture. Either would be welded through the skirt of the cup face.
The body of the club would be made of a hollow phenolic resin forming a symmetrical bullet shape at the rear with three weight ports.
The body and the face/hosel of the club would have matching flanges that would accept either a contact cement or strong, flexible, high temp epoxy, then be clicked into a locked position.
The target mass of the clubhead would be 184g. However, three weight ports could be used to increase the mass by 30g to 214g. Nylon plugs could be used instead of weights to reach the 184g mark.
I would like to see this club setup square and be offered in 8.5º, 10º, and 13º lofts. I would like to see it in left hand as well.
I would like to see a driver that weighs 210 to 213 grams.Its almost impossible to get a proper swing weight or MOI with a 200 gram driver.A lot of golfers are going to 43.5″ clublengths and the only source is Golfsmith or Wishon for a club head that weight can be added.
Your next driver component should be all the usual, cup face, high MOI, variable face thickness, and allow interchangeable shafts. The feature that is missing in driver components today is a wide range of weighting options;i.e. 185~215 grams for draw or fade bias but also to allow longer (or shorter) shaft lengths with normal swing weights.
1. Same color theme as Power Play Caiman 3 wood.
2. Reduce standard shaft length to 44 or even 43.5 inches for control.
3. Use Lampkin Performance Plus grip to allow multiple hand positions on grip without being in short diameter area.
4. Maximum MOI and Club CC.
5. Square;not closed face in 10.5 degree loft.
6. Bevel down front edge of bottom for occasional fatal over the top move.
7. Regular flex black non glossy graphite shaft with minimal graphics.
8. Matching rain resistant head cover.
9. Do not want adjustable weighting or adjustable anything. Play it as is.
Thank you.
1. Same color theme as Power Play Caiman 3 wood.
2. Reduce standard shaft length to 44 or even 43.5 inches for control.
3. Use Lampkin Performance Plus grip to allow multiple hand positions on grip without being in short diameter area.
4. Maximum MOI and Club CC.
5. Square;not closed face in 10.5 degree loft.
6. Bevel down front edge of bottom for occasional fatal over the top move.
7. Regular flex black non glossy graphite shaft with minimal graphics.
8. Matching rain resistant head cover.
9. Do not want adjustable weighting or adjustable anything. Play it as is.
Thank you
TEAR DROP SHAPE, 60 MM BETA TI. C CUP FACE, 400 – 425 CC, WERE TALKING LONG DRIVE SPECS. GETTER DONE.
I prefer pear-shaped drivers, about 350-400 CC.
However, I think you already have the design in your catalog.
Just take the Power Play Caiman RawPower 3 Wood, and stretch it to 360 to 400CC’s. Use the same materials and technology. If its predecessor is any indication, this head will prove long, straight and durable.
If I may…
Get rid of bulge and roll!!! The whole “gear effect” premise is garbage. If convex-faced drivers were more accurate than flat faces, people wouldn’t be hitting irons off the tee when control is necessary. The driver would be the most accurate club in your bag. The MOI actually keeps the ball on the club face long enough that the rounded face acts like the pull cord on a child’s top, making it spin outward. This increases the hook or slice, a LOT. I recently got an -almost- flat-faced square driver…the “Cube” by Affinity. It’s given me better control than I’ve had in years.
Next…go to as much as a 14 degree men’s loft. I saw a computer model of swing speeds and loft, giving different spin rates and drive distances. Up to almost the pro level, increasing the loft to as much as 14 degrees (usually 12 degrees standard flexand 14 degrees senior flex) gives better distance. Plus, it helps those of us who don’t drive 300 yards clear those annoying fairway traps. More carry and less roll is a good thing on a driver in the VAST majority of cases.
Many thanks!
Amen to the comments asking for more flat lie options. At my height I’ve found that 2 degree flat lie is my best option, but it is difficult to find, for example, any 2 degree flat lie hybrids or drivers at 56 or 57 degree lie. Do designers really think that everyone is 5’10″ or taller?
I just stumbled across a driver on Golf Digest’s website that featured a driver that oddly enough I believe was designed by an old Dynacraft employee Jeff Jackson that uses compressed nitrogen in the head to support the very thin (thinner than maraging or any titanium). The logic is that modern clubs that tout spring effect, the swingspeed would have to be over 100 mph to realize the spring effect. The idea is w/ nitrogen to support the ultra thin face, a spring like effect can be realized w/ slower swingspeeds in the 90 to 100mph range. I wonder if something like this could be tried, maybe w/ other inert gases, etc in a traditional pear shape design.
More traditionally shaped or slightly triangular. Light weight crown. Hi MOI. Square face angle. Loft down to 9 degrees. Heavier weight options for shorter driver lengths. Deep black piano gloss finish. Solid, more muted sound (“PINK” not “DONK”).
I like the idea of being able to change the loft and face angle of a club with the new adjustable clubs but I don’t think that they have come up with one that would be adjustable for lie angle. That would be a real plus. I also would like to see more of the cup face designs like the Raw Distance 3 wood that move the weld away from the face of the club. Matching 5 wood would be great.
Not sure if this the correct section for club design input. There are quite a few variables in dewsigning a club. Appearance, will attract or totally turn someone off. Sound, you want a club that has a sound of quality (similiar to the Taylor Made super-quad or the the Mellow Yellow squarehead by Bang Golf) great sounding clubs due to material type & quality. They don’t sound like a tin can. Turns players off & definitely sound cheap. Performance, the most important factor in a club. If you state you’re going to get 20 yards extra then the major brands, then design it to do that.
I build a lot of long drivers for seniors and have been since 1995. See my article on long drivers for seniors on Clubmaker Online: http://clubmaker-online.com/senior.ld.html
I’ve found that built properly, they will get the player another 10 yards distance for every extra inch…some senior women get even more. And, I certainly agree with the first comment that driver lies are much too upright today….especially for long drivers. I’ve been forced to use large, very round heads so that even though the head is sitting toe-up, solid impact and direction aren’t compromised more than a bit. The square heads are almost impossible to hit squarely on any driver over 44″ for the average size adult. A 53°-55° lie would be much better for the average player’s driver, even at 45″.
Some years ago (late 1990s), a small component supplier called Mars Golf introduced fairway woods called Cydonia LCGs. They are very large heads (eg:220cc 2W, 13° and 195cc, 15° 3W with 55° and 56° lies and only a 32mm face height), with flat, rockered soles, very much like the latest high MOI designs. My 2W is 45″ and 3W is 44″ long, very easy to hit and hits farther and higher than every big name 3W that I match it against every demo day. The Cy LCGs were discontinued about 2000, but I’d sure like to see someone resurrect that head design. I built over 50 sets for seniors here on our three courses over 10 years ago and almost every one is still in someone’s bag. I still have my 2000 catalog and can scan the photos if you’re interested. They are great high MOI designs.
I like the new sizes and shape options that designers are playing with…. although
I don’t really care for the square shape myself.
I do like the face geometry of the newer heads – generally longer and lower.
I find it distracting if the heads have too much bulge. Sound is a very important consideration… for feedback. Nothing feels or sounds as good as making very solid contact.
Colour… how about something with more of a pearl or satin finish… it’ll look better longer -
without the glare. I think that designers are utilizing multi material heads much better.
I also think that other weight location options might be nice… why stop at just 3 screw locations?
Alignment contours on the head really help.
More subtle than dots or colour changes.
And how about a driver with more than just 2 loft options? – Some of us still use the low lofted heads…. when you can find them.
I would like to see a square driver (similar to the Mantara) but with a sloped back, similar to the Cleveland HiBore series and most importantly a zero roll face, like the Wishon series or the old Pure Fit ones.
I like the comments I read about flat lies and lighter weight heads. Flat lie helps those of shorter stature and lighter weight means that a satisfactory swing weight can be acquired with a longer shaft. However since I have made many long shafted drivers, including one that required removing material from the head to reduce the swing weight, I need a head that weighs about 175 to 180 grams even if the head volume is below 400 cc and the material is not titanium but steel.
I don’t know much about designing a driver but currently I’m using Taylormade Burner Draw and R7 460 Draw, the first thing I realised was that the Burner was easier to handle than the R7. I dont have to tee it to high to get the the ball up and my swing speed don’t have to be so agressive. So I think the next driver i.e. 2010 Driver should incorporate some of the characteistics of the Burner such as bullet shape, low face height. The weight should be put nearer to the face as it can help in accelerating the club on the down swing and help steady the clubface on impact.
[...] you have been following on our Blog, you probably have wondered what is the status of the “Hireko Wants You to Help Design Our Next Driver from the Ground Up!” campaign. This just happens to be one of 17 club head projects I am working on. Some of [...]
In my opinion these are what I look for.
#1 high MIO if not max(if there is a max in moi)
#2 COR at MAX.. no one will complain if they hit it 5 yards further
#3 Aerodymic build.. too many clubs out there are actually designed incorrectly
#4 A good nuetral look that will compliment any shaft(face it shape is just a look. If it hits like its supposed to no one will complain.
#5 Cup face
#6 HUGE sweet spot.
#7 PLASMA welds
#8 titanium build.
#9 LOFT and LIE options… there is no one head right for everyone.
I’ve been thinking about a new variable weight system. Instead of the usual screw, how about layers…sorta like stacking pancakes…both vertical and horizonal. Weights would slide into the clubface with an internal bracket system to hold the weights. The screws would be offset to level up with the club face. A new novel sysem would make for a novel club which would catch the eye of golfanatics. The weights could be made of brass, stainless, titanium, or aluminum. The horizonal weights could be stacked to lower or raise the COG. The vertical weights chould be placed to correct a hook, slice, or fade. That’s my idea thanks LW Ashley
The perfect Driver:
For me it needs 4 things
Easily interchangeable shafts
Adjustable head weight for swingweighting, trajectory and directional control.
A base weight around 200 grams with the ability to go +/- 20 grams.
Available in lofts from 8* to 16*
Except for the fact that I can’t find any additional shaft ends (so that I could use other shafts then the 3 they sold), the TaylorMade r7 CGB Max Limited is the perfect driver. 415cc head. Semi-trangular shape, interchangable shafts, adj head weighting. Responsive face, high MOI and max allowable COR. Ball go far, Ball go straight.
Several of my playing partners and I love to play overlength drivers. Even if you’re not playing particularly well, bombing a 300 yard drive is always satisfying. The problem is that the swingweight gets so heavy. I would like to see a driver head that is light enough and flat enough to feel normal at the maximum allowable playing length.
The Shrink:
We are introducing counterweights exactly for the purpose you are asking about. We should have them starting this week and you can view them at the following link:
http://www.hirekogolf.com/hire...../0/0/0/0/0
However, if you are looking for a lighter head, look at something like our Q2 driver and you can substitute the screws that come with the head for two 2g screws.
my 2 cents
#1 More traditional shape (enlongated pear but not a pure triangle)
#2 multi materal weighting (Carbon Fiber Crown and sole, redistributing weight around and internally to create a balanced driver with high MOI)
#3 a Pure sounding driver. A nice pitched ting instead of an aluminum bat sound. Using carbon fiber inside and out will help this
#4 adjustible lie loft and face angle 3 degrees open or closed, 12 lie and loft choices (could be less)
#5 plasma welded face with .83 cor
#6 Longer lower wider profile
#7 an aerodynamic sole and bottom
#8 A mid to high launch shaft (something to compare to the Prolaunch Axis blue)
Distance, distance, distance, what about feel and accuracy? Everthing is geared toward hitting the long ball. 50 gram shafts and 190 gram driver heads combined with 45″ or 46″ lengths. One slight hiccup in your swing and you can kiss that ball goodbye. There is not a box on the score card where you write down your drive distances but there is a box for score. I’d rather be 240 down the middle than 260 into the bushes. Let’s get back to heavier total weights, shorted lengths and higher lofts. Offer more fairway woods in higher lofts so you can launch the ball off the deck with greater accuracy. This trend is also in iron sets. Offer some iron sets where you don’t have to fill in between the PW and SW with a gap wedge. This is the hardest game in the World, so why are manufacturers making it harder by producing clubs that are harder to hit(longer with stronger lofts). You know everything in life is circular motion so lets get back to playing this game by making shots.
I am a traditionalist. Enough with all the gimmicks and hype.
What I like is a driver no bigger than 340cc with good balance through the hitting area.
Something Tiger or Phil would use too.
I would like to see new drivers with smaller heads. I went back to a 350cc driver and my driving distance and accuracy both improved. The smaller head makes me focus on making good contact, like if I was using a 3 wood off a tee. I like a good solid sound that lets you know when you struck the sweet spot on the clubface, but not so loud that it draws alot of attention. A square clubface and a small mark on the crown for alignment gives me confidence during setup.
[...] Check out the previous “Design our next Driver” blog posts: Part 5 Part 4 Part 3 Part 1 [...]
i think that options should be available with the shaft closer to the center of the face, allowing for an easier to release (open to shut) motion. think of a center shafted putter. i don’t know if the extreme of a center shafted driver would work, but i do think that getting the sweet spot of the club closer to the axis of the shaft could be interesting.
I’ve been evaluating Customizing the Driver Crown on my assembled Drivers by using Pinstripping for visual directional appearance.
By accident when hitting these Customized Drivers at a local Driving Range I noticed that taking back the Driver generated an
alignment characteristic similar to my Mallet Putter. This improved hitting the Driver’s Sweet Spot with more consistency which gave
me added distance and straightness control.
Today, many OEM Driver Designs are using Weight Screws, CG/MOI Improvements and Head Geometry to improve distance & straightness flight..
However, they have overlooked the Driver take-back alignment problem.
The shape and sound of the Geek Fail Safe 3 Driver is Great.
Pretty much what they all say above…
Although, I would like to see a 480-500CC head, with huge MOI, COR around 87,88.. super high but not breakable high. Very very areodynamic to make up for the extra large face. Not too light, I want enough weight (over the limit) so the club squares it’s self. I want a club, my mom can swing and hit 250 yards, (with a 6o mph swing speed) A club, I can just swing about 60-70% power and not worry about hurting my bad back, and still get great distance and extreeeeeeem forgiveness. Something so non conforming, it will make all the club makers in the business cry that they did not have the guts to make it first! We all know it can be done. You can add a “rubber” behind the face to increase COR and spring face effect, while adding protection. Maybe even a spring, that you wind up, and is released when you swing that pushes the face forward after inpact, giving you a higher COR than would be possible just by a solid face. OF course you will get players using it to hit 400 yard drives, but that it ok, because it will make you millions!!!! But there are a ton of older players who will love you for this. And those are the golfers with money, who want to keep playing!
460cc pear shaped or deep back – adjustable weigts 2 center front & rear & 2 heel & toe for maximum center of gravity change on both axis – square, face foward, ‘hot’ face with appropriate bulge but with no roll for more consistant launch – 57 degree lie bendable or w/ adjustable hosel inserts to adjust lie by 1 & 2 degrees & hosel inserts to adjust face angle 1 & 2 degrees for each lie – 8,9,10 & 12,13,14 degree lofts And… matching 4 wt. fairway woods 14 & 17 degree same lie & wt., 18 & 21 degree same lie & wt. & 22 & 25 degree same lie & wt. all marked w/ degrees not #’s And… matching 3 wt. hybrids 18 & 20 degrees same lie & wt., 21 & 23 degrees same lie & wt. & 23 & 25 degree same lie & wt. also w/ no #’s – both fairway & hybrids w/ hot faces no roll & bendable hosels. In other words a completely matched set for varied swings & abilities.
I’d like to see in addition to the current ICT hosel/insert, an integral customizable weight to change the feel of the clubhead. No need for TM R7/9 weight ports because the ICT hosel controls ball flight. I never liked it when I would play my Mizuno MP32′s where you can feel where the head is throughout the swing and then I’d pick up my driver and the feel is opposite of my irons. For guys like me that aren’t overly concerned about swing weights rather than just playing what feels good, I would like to see an integral weight plug/insert added to the ICT hosel configuration. I think the savvy club makers who are knowledgeable about swing weight would get into that as well even though they have been using plug weights or other methods for years. What do y’all think about that?
Ruger:
If we were to add a port for weighting, it will consume additional weight and force us to make the club smaller or resort to a much more expensive manufacturing method to allow for a 200g head.
According to the U.S.G.A. Drivers are built to be tested with a swing speed of 110 MPH in order to get the Trampoline effect, so when my swing speed is only 82 MPH I do not get any Trampoline effect, so it looks like when you get older and lose speed and distance the U.S.G.A. could care less. So why don’t you build a Driver to help all of us with slower swing speeds to be able to get the Trampoline effect so we can continue to enjoy the game again??
Roger:
The trampoline effect exists regardless of the speed as you are still getting some been benefit, but perhaps not as much as a stronger golfer. The USGA does not differentiate the charteristic time (CT) for different swing speeds therefore to make conforming drivers, we have to design around the existing rules.
A lot of interesting ideas here!